New recipes

Syrah Is Like a Violin, and Shiraz Is Like a Fiddle (But Sometimes Not)


Both styles are welcome, in music as well as in wine

Michael Tercha/Chicago Tribune

Syrah in the bottle might be called that on the label, or maybe shiraz, or maybe the grape isn’t named at all. Here we see syrah-based wines from Saint-Joseph in France, from left, Washington state and Australia.

If you've ever asked what the difference between a violin and a fiddle is, you may have been subjected to the pithy response: "The way it's played."

I guess it's not an out-and-out untruth, but it's also not the clearest path to the real answer, which is that "violin" and "fiddle" are two names for the same thing: the string instrument that was developed in 16th-century Europe and is played with a bow. Classical musicians usually refer to their instrument as a violin, and most folk players call it a fiddle. But if an Irish or Appalachian fiddle player chooses to call her fiddle a violin, regardless of how she plays it, she's not going to be wrong.

In the wine world, the French grape variety syrah is a violin, and shiraz (as it is known in Australia and other parts of the New World) is a fiddle. They are two names for the same grape, of course, a so-called international variety that does well in many parts of the world. Just as Itzhak Perlman plays Bach's Concerto in D Minor on his violin in a different style than Liz Carroll plays "The Chicago Reel" on her fiddle, syrah and shiraz can be notably different styles of wine.

Both styles are welcome, in music as well as in wine. In fact, I have seen Perlman playing klezmer (another shiraz style of music that features that bowed string instrument), and although it is not the style he is known for, when you're good, you're good.


"Pot roast" with marrow - advice?

My father is older, and he longs for recipes made by my mother, who is now passed away. A variation on the pot roast recipe. Since my father's memory is not so good, I am hoping someone here can direct me to a recipe or give me pointers to help adapt a standard recipe. My mother was a basic cook. I'm a little more adventurous, but not very fancy.

What my Dad remembers is a roast with the bone still included, as he realized the wonderful flavor that developed in the sauce/potatoes reflected the marrow. No place in my area can provide a roast with the bone intact. But I did recently see at Whole Foods that beef shanks can come with a nice large bone with a lot of marrow. I thought I could throw that cut in with a more traditional meat cut used for a pot roast, or just use ?2-3 beef shanks with generous meet surrounding the bone as the "roast"? Thoughts? Or is that too much marrow relative to meat? And when cooking with marrow, when during the cooking process do I release it from the bone so it can integrate with the other components?

Next, my Mom's "pot roast" was fairly improvised, and was not cooked on the stove top and/or finished in the oven, but was cooked in an electric frying pan for initial searing and then was covered for slow cooking. Thoughts? My Dad is fixated that I need to use this frying pan, but I suspect that isn't a critical variable.

And finally, my father recalls using TONS of sweet red wine, that was reduced down. Like a more than a traditional bottle. and this contributed to an unusual blackening of the meat surface, essentially coated with a relatively sticky, sweet/savory substance that he loved, particularly in combination with the marrow and the potatoes.

Any pointers on getting/using marrow in my roast? And which cuts?

Electric frying pan - yeah or nay?

Any recipe recommendations that include a crazy high amount of wine added?

I have to admit, that I was not a fan of this recipe as a child. A little too fatty for me, so I will try to remove more of the fat that separates out. But boy, the potatoes were truly delicious with that marrow, if that is the secret.

There is never a crazy high amount of wine added, unless the wine is very specific and strong tasting as opposed to a generic pinot noir/merlot or pinot grigio/sauvignon blanc. Even sweeter wines but generic wines such as moscato/sweet red would be ok. I do Boeuf Bourguignon for 6 with a whole 750ml bottle, only to be adjusted with little beef stock or even more wine if not covering the meat. Need a short/3mn boil first to not make it bitter after simmering hours.

I may also use beef shanks in my Bourguignon, but with the meat removed from the bone. The meat can be separated from the connective tissue and cut to small bite sizes to be used for a sear-then-braise dish at another time.

Clicking the will recommend this comment to others.

Appreciate the input on wine. Just curious. what wine do you use for your Boeuf Bourguignon? And what meat cut?

And if I understand you correctly. you just suggest using the bone out of the shanks, and avoiding the meat for this dish (or for pot roast)? I appreciate this. During my visit to Whole Food yesterday, the butcher also favored avoiding the shank meat, but did like the idea of adding it for the marrow.

I have never made Beouf Bourguignon before either, but looking at it, I suspect my Dad's imagined Pot Roast is kind of Pot Roast with a BB influence.

The Boeuf Bourguignon is called that way because of the local resources which are "la vache charolaise" (Charolais cattle), and the pinot noir type of wine from burgundy. However, other beef types and similar red wines are also suitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charola.
You'd need more info than below for making a bourguignon, so just think good ol' US beef pot roast with accent on wine and not stock, no other veggies inside than onion carrots mirepoix, thick bacon cut in lardon strips, and meat cut into super big cube, and you're in.

For the wine:
The brand does not matter, different places I've lived in, different stores and different brands. As of today, my choice would be the 1.5L Gallo family vineyards hearty burgundy as it is good and available cheap at my local store averaging less than $4/750ml, $6.99 a magnum bottle these days. The Gallo Pinot noir is also good but rare and more expensive when found, such as $6 for 750ml. However, I drink red wine quite often and my favorite to drink is Merlot, which the Gallo is regularly between $3-4 for 750ml. There are other red pinot noir and merlot, very good and cheap at Trader's Joe or Fiesta or other stores that are not the real big guns like walmart/kroger/safeway etc . so look for these. No "Ste. Genevieve Texas" and no "Oak Leaf" for sure, you just have to try a few before you know which to avoid.
My advice is to test taste any Merlot (Bordeaux) or Pinot noir (Burgundy) under $5 for 750ml, maybe a little more if you live in expensive area like SF or NYC, and decide which you like best and use it. When back in Provence France, I use Shiraz/Syrah type wine because it is the local best choice (Rhone Valley) in equivalent southern "Beef Daube Provençale".
Feel free to use sweet red if you want sweet taste or simply add cane sugar when pan frying your mirepoix (onions/carrots). Avoid Cabernet Sauvignon, too much tanin with bitterness risks, and not strong enough.

For the meat:
The official FR beef cut is usually boneless stew meat "paleron/macreuse" (low/slow braise), but also "côtes découvertes", "gîte à la noix" (shorter stirfry/med-rare)". This does not translate to well known packaged US "stew meat", rather Beef Chuck for braising.
http://www.foodsubs.com/MeatBeefChuck.
The one I use is labeled "Beef Shoulder Roast" at my store. For 8 people, 3 to 4 pounds meat, equivalent pounds-to-pints liquid with minimum half of wine, then "fond brun de veau non lié" (veal stock no starch/thickener). I use only wine, no beef stock, and volume to cover like in stew, about 3/4 of a 1.5L magnum. If given the opportunity use venisson/deer, wild boar or simply pork shoulder/butt.

It is nearly impossible to find real "fond brun de veau" in the US but if you can find beef bones equivalent to knuckles, nothing prevents you to add some in the liquid. The best would be beef feet, but beef shanks are easy to find and the marrow tastes so good. However, I remove the meat from the shank and use it for another more suitable dish, in smaller strips (such as in braised-not-stirfry strogonoff), as opposed to large oversized cubes of beef for the bourguignon. The cooking needs homogeneous size and similar meat muscle. In France, they might even use beef cheek ("Joue de boeuf en daube"), you find it in South American stores in the US.


"Pot roast" with marrow - advice?

My father is older, and he longs for recipes made by my mother, who is now passed away. A variation on the pot roast recipe. Since my father's memory is not so good, I am hoping someone here can direct me to a recipe or give me pointers to help adapt a standard recipe. My mother was a basic cook. I'm a little more adventurous, but not very fancy.

What my Dad remembers is a roast with the bone still included, as he realized the wonderful flavor that developed in the sauce/potatoes reflected the marrow. No place in my area can provide a roast with the bone intact. But I did recently see at Whole Foods that beef shanks can come with a nice large bone with a lot of marrow. I thought I could throw that cut in with a more traditional meat cut used for a pot roast, or just use ?2-3 beef shanks with generous meet surrounding the bone as the "roast"? Thoughts? Or is that too much marrow relative to meat? And when cooking with marrow, when during the cooking process do I release it from the bone so it can integrate with the other components?

Next, my Mom's "pot roast" was fairly improvised, and was not cooked on the stove top and/or finished in the oven, but was cooked in an electric frying pan for initial searing and then was covered for slow cooking. Thoughts? My Dad is fixated that I need to use this frying pan, but I suspect that isn't a critical variable.

And finally, my father recalls using TONS of sweet red wine, that was reduced down. Like a more than a traditional bottle. and this contributed to an unusual blackening of the meat surface, essentially coated with a relatively sticky, sweet/savory substance that he loved, particularly in combination with the marrow and the potatoes.

Any pointers on getting/using marrow in my roast? And which cuts?

Electric frying pan - yeah or nay?

Any recipe recommendations that include a crazy high amount of wine added?

I have to admit, that I was not a fan of this recipe as a child. A little too fatty for me, so I will try to remove more of the fat that separates out. But boy, the potatoes were truly delicious with that marrow, if that is the secret.

There is never a crazy high amount of wine added, unless the wine is very specific and strong tasting as opposed to a generic pinot noir/merlot or pinot grigio/sauvignon blanc. Even sweeter wines but generic wines such as moscato/sweet red would be ok. I do Boeuf Bourguignon for 6 with a whole 750ml bottle, only to be adjusted with little beef stock or even more wine if not covering the meat. Need a short/3mn boil first to not make it bitter after simmering hours.

I may also use beef shanks in my Bourguignon, but with the meat removed from the bone. The meat can be separated from the connective tissue and cut to small bite sizes to be used for a sear-then-braise dish at another time.

Clicking the will recommend this comment to others.

Appreciate the input on wine. Just curious. what wine do you use for your Boeuf Bourguignon? And what meat cut?

And if I understand you correctly. you just suggest using the bone out of the shanks, and avoiding the meat for this dish (or for pot roast)? I appreciate this. During my visit to Whole Food yesterday, the butcher also favored avoiding the shank meat, but did like the idea of adding it for the marrow.

I have never made Beouf Bourguignon before either, but looking at it, I suspect my Dad's imagined Pot Roast is kind of Pot Roast with a BB influence.

The Boeuf Bourguignon is called that way because of the local resources which are "la vache charolaise" (Charolais cattle), and the pinot noir type of wine from burgundy. However, other beef types and similar red wines are also suitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charola.
You'd need more info than below for making a bourguignon, so just think good ol' US beef pot roast with accent on wine and not stock, no other veggies inside than onion carrots mirepoix, thick bacon cut in lardon strips, and meat cut into super big cube, and you're in.

For the wine:
The brand does not matter, different places I've lived in, different stores and different brands. As of today, my choice would be the 1.5L Gallo family vineyards hearty burgundy as it is good and available cheap at my local store averaging less than $4/750ml, $6.99 a magnum bottle these days. The Gallo Pinot noir is also good but rare and more expensive when found, such as $6 for 750ml. However, I drink red wine quite often and my favorite to drink is Merlot, which the Gallo is regularly between $3-4 for 750ml. There are other red pinot noir and merlot, very good and cheap at Trader's Joe or Fiesta or other stores that are not the real big guns like walmart/kroger/safeway etc . so look for these. No "Ste. Genevieve Texas" and no "Oak Leaf" for sure, you just have to try a few before you know which to avoid.
My advice is to test taste any Merlot (Bordeaux) or Pinot noir (Burgundy) under $5 for 750ml, maybe a little more if you live in expensive area like SF or NYC, and decide which you like best and use it. When back in Provence France, I use Shiraz/Syrah type wine because it is the local best choice (Rhone Valley) in equivalent southern "Beef Daube Provençale".
Feel free to use sweet red if you want sweet taste or simply add cane sugar when pan frying your mirepoix (onions/carrots). Avoid Cabernet Sauvignon, too much tanin with bitterness risks, and not strong enough.

For the meat:
The official FR beef cut is usually boneless stew meat "paleron/macreuse" (low/slow braise), but also "côtes découvertes", "gîte à la noix" (shorter stirfry/med-rare)". This does not translate to well known packaged US "stew meat", rather Beef Chuck for braising.
http://www.foodsubs.com/MeatBeefChuck.
The one I use is labeled "Beef Shoulder Roast" at my store. For 8 people, 3 to 4 pounds meat, equivalent pounds-to-pints liquid with minimum half of wine, then "fond brun de veau non lié" (veal stock no starch/thickener). I use only wine, no beef stock, and volume to cover like in stew, about 3/4 of a 1.5L magnum. If given the opportunity use venisson/deer, wild boar or simply pork shoulder/butt.

It is nearly impossible to find real "fond brun de veau" in the US but if you can find beef bones equivalent to knuckles, nothing prevents you to add some in the liquid. The best would be beef feet, but beef shanks are easy to find and the marrow tastes so good. However, I remove the meat from the shank and use it for another more suitable dish, in smaller strips (such as in braised-not-stirfry strogonoff), as opposed to large oversized cubes of beef for the bourguignon. The cooking needs homogeneous size and similar meat muscle. In France, they might even use beef cheek ("Joue de boeuf en daube"), you find it in South American stores in the US.


"Pot roast" with marrow - advice?

My father is older, and he longs for recipes made by my mother, who is now passed away. A variation on the pot roast recipe. Since my father's memory is not so good, I am hoping someone here can direct me to a recipe or give me pointers to help adapt a standard recipe. My mother was a basic cook. I'm a little more adventurous, but not very fancy.

What my Dad remembers is a roast with the bone still included, as he realized the wonderful flavor that developed in the sauce/potatoes reflected the marrow. No place in my area can provide a roast with the bone intact. But I did recently see at Whole Foods that beef shanks can come with a nice large bone with a lot of marrow. I thought I could throw that cut in with a more traditional meat cut used for a pot roast, or just use ?2-3 beef shanks with generous meet surrounding the bone as the "roast"? Thoughts? Or is that too much marrow relative to meat? And when cooking with marrow, when during the cooking process do I release it from the bone so it can integrate with the other components?

Next, my Mom's "pot roast" was fairly improvised, and was not cooked on the stove top and/or finished in the oven, but was cooked in an electric frying pan for initial searing and then was covered for slow cooking. Thoughts? My Dad is fixated that I need to use this frying pan, but I suspect that isn't a critical variable.

And finally, my father recalls using TONS of sweet red wine, that was reduced down. Like a more than a traditional bottle. and this contributed to an unusual blackening of the meat surface, essentially coated with a relatively sticky, sweet/savory substance that he loved, particularly in combination with the marrow and the potatoes.

Any pointers on getting/using marrow in my roast? And which cuts?

Electric frying pan - yeah or nay?

Any recipe recommendations that include a crazy high amount of wine added?

I have to admit, that I was not a fan of this recipe as a child. A little too fatty for me, so I will try to remove more of the fat that separates out. But boy, the potatoes were truly delicious with that marrow, if that is the secret.

There is never a crazy high amount of wine added, unless the wine is very specific and strong tasting as opposed to a generic pinot noir/merlot or pinot grigio/sauvignon blanc. Even sweeter wines but generic wines such as moscato/sweet red would be ok. I do Boeuf Bourguignon for 6 with a whole 750ml bottle, only to be adjusted with little beef stock or even more wine if not covering the meat. Need a short/3mn boil first to not make it bitter after simmering hours.

I may also use beef shanks in my Bourguignon, but with the meat removed from the bone. The meat can be separated from the connective tissue and cut to small bite sizes to be used for a sear-then-braise dish at another time.

Clicking the will recommend this comment to others.

Appreciate the input on wine. Just curious. what wine do you use for your Boeuf Bourguignon? And what meat cut?

And if I understand you correctly. you just suggest using the bone out of the shanks, and avoiding the meat for this dish (or for pot roast)? I appreciate this. During my visit to Whole Food yesterday, the butcher also favored avoiding the shank meat, but did like the idea of adding it for the marrow.

I have never made Beouf Bourguignon before either, but looking at it, I suspect my Dad's imagined Pot Roast is kind of Pot Roast with a BB influence.

The Boeuf Bourguignon is called that way because of the local resources which are "la vache charolaise" (Charolais cattle), and the pinot noir type of wine from burgundy. However, other beef types and similar red wines are also suitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charola.
You'd need more info than below for making a bourguignon, so just think good ol' US beef pot roast with accent on wine and not stock, no other veggies inside than onion carrots mirepoix, thick bacon cut in lardon strips, and meat cut into super big cube, and you're in.

For the wine:
The brand does not matter, different places I've lived in, different stores and different brands. As of today, my choice would be the 1.5L Gallo family vineyards hearty burgundy as it is good and available cheap at my local store averaging less than $4/750ml, $6.99 a magnum bottle these days. The Gallo Pinot noir is also good but rare and more expensive when found, such as $6 for 750ml. However, I drink red wine quite often and my favorite to drink is Merlot, which the Gallo is regularly between $3-4 for 750ml. There are other red pinot noir and merlot, very good and cheap at Trader's Joe or Fiesta or other stores that are not the real big guns like walmart/kroger/safeway etc . so look for these. No "Ste. Genevieve Texas" and no "Oak Leaf" for sure, you just have to try a few before you know which to avoid.
My advice is to test taste any Merlot (Bordeaux) or Pinot noir (Burgundy) under $5 for 750ml, maybe a little more if you live in expensive area like SF or NYC, and decide which you like best and use it. When back in Provence France, I use Shiraz/Syrah type wine because it is the local best choice (Rhone Valley) in equivalent southern "Beef Daube Provençale".
Feel free to use sweet red if you want sweet taste or simply add cane sugar when pan frying your mirepoix (onions/carrots). Avoid Cabernet Sauvignon, too much tanin with bitterness risks, and not strong enough.

For the meat:
The official FR beef cut is usually boneless stew meat "paleron/macreuse" (low/slow braise), but also "côtes découvertes", "gîte à la noix" (shorter stirfry/med-rare)". This does not translate to well known packaged US "stew meat", rather Beef Chuck for braising.
http://www.foodsubs.com/MeatBeefChuck.
The one I use is labeled "Beef Shoulder Roast" at my store. For 8 people, 3 to 4 pounds meat, equivalent pounds-to-pints liquid with minimum half of wine, then "fond brun de veau non lié" (veal stock no starch/thickener). I use only wine, no beef stock, and volume to cover like in stew, about 3/4 of a 1.5L magnum. If given the opportunity use venisson/deer, wild boar or simply pork shoulder/butt.

It is nearly impossible to find real "fond brun de veau" in the US but if you can find beef bones equivalent to knuckles, nothing prevents you to add some in the liquid. The best would be beef feet, but beef shanks are easy to find and the marrow tastes so good. However, I remove the meat from the shank and use it for another more suitable dish, in smaller strips (such as in braised-not-stirfry strogonoff), as opposed to large oversized cubes of beef for the bourguignon. The cooking needs homogeneous size and similar meat muscle. In France, they might even use beef cheek ("Joue de boeuf en daube"), you find it in South American stores in the US.


"Pot roast" with marrow - advice?

My father is older, and he longs for recipes made by my mother, who is now passed away. A variation on the pot roast recipe. Since my father's memory is not so good, I am hoping someone here can direct me to a recipe or give me pointers to help adapt a standard recipe. My mother was a basic cook. I'm a little more adventurous, but not very fancy.

What my Dad remembers is a roast with the bone still included, as he realized the wonderful flavor that developed in the sauce/potatoes reflected the marrow. No place in my area can provide a roast with the bone intact. But I did recently see at Whole Foods that beef shanks can come with a nice large bone with a lot of marrow. I thought I could throw that cut in with a more traditional meat cut used for a pot roast, or just use ?2-3 beef shanks with generous meet surrounding the bone as the "roast"? Thoughts? Or is that too much marrow relative to meat? And when cooking with marrow, when during the cooking process do I release it from the bone so it can integrate with the other components?

Next, my Mom's "pot roast" was fairly improvised, and was not cooked on the stove top and/or finished in the oven, but was cooked in an electric frying pan for initial searing and then was covered for slow cooking. Thoughts? My Dad is fixated that I need to use this frying pan, but I suspect that isn't a critical variable.

And finally, my father recalls using TONS of sweet red wine, that was reduced down. Like a more than a traditional bottle. and this contributed to an unusual blackening of the meat surface, essentially coated with a relatively sticky, sweet/savory substance that he loved, particularly in combination with the marrow and the potatoes.

Any pointers on getting/using marrow in my roast? And which cuts?

Electric frying pan - yeah or nay?

Any recipe recommendations that include a crazy high amount of wine added?

I have to admit, that I was not a fan of this recipe as a child. A little too fatty for me, so I will try to remove more of the fat that separates out. But boy, the potatoes were truly delicious with that marrow, if that is the secret.

There is never a crazy high amount of wine added, unless the wine is very specific and strong tasting as opposed to a generic pinot noir/merlot or pinot grigio/sauvignon blanc. Even sweeter wines but generic wines such as moscato/sweet red would be ok. I do Boeuf Bourguignon for 6 with a whole 750ml bottle, only to be adjusted with little beef stock or even more wine if not covering the meat. Need a short/3mn boil first to not make it bitter after simmering hours.

I may also use beef shanks in my Bourguignon, but with the meat removed from the bone. The meat can be separated from the connective tissue and cut to small bite sizes to be used for a sear-then-braise dish at another time.

Clicking the will recommend this comment to others.

Appreciate the input on wine. Just curious. what wine do you use for your Boeuf Bourguignon? And what meat cut?

And if I understand you correctly. you just suggest using the bone out of the shanks, and avoiding the meat for this dish (or for pot roast)? I appreciate this. During my visit to Whole Food yesterday, the butcher also favored avoiding the shank meat, but did like the idea of adding it for the marrow.

I have never made Beouf Bourguignon before either, but looking at it, I suspect my Dad's imagined Pot Roast is kind of Pot Roast with a BB influence.

The Boeuf Bourguignon is called that way because of the local resources which are "la vache charolaise" (Charolais cattle), and the pinot noir type of wine from burgundy. However, other beef types and similar red wines are also suitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charola.
You'd need more info than below for making a bourguignon, so just think good ol' US beef pot roast with accent on wine and not stock, no other veggies inside than onion carrots mirepoix, thick bacon cut in lardon strips, and meat cut into super big cube, and you're in.

For the wine:
The brand does not matter, different places I've lived in, different stores and different brands. As of today, my choice would be the 1.5L Gallo family vineyards hearty burgundy as it is good and available cheap at my local store averaging less than $4/750ml, $6.99 a magnum bottle these days. The Gallo Pinot noir is also good but rare and more expensive when found, such as $6 for 750ml. However, I drink red wine quite often and my favorite to drink is Merlot, which the Gallo is regularly between $3-4 for 750ml. There are other red pinot noir and merlot, very good and cheap at Trader's Joe or Fiesta or other stores that are not the real big guns like walmart/kroger/safeway etc . so look for these. No "Ste. Genevieve Texas" and no "Oak Leaf" for sure, you just have to try a few before you know which to avoid.
My advice is to test taste any Merlot (Bordeaux) or Pinot noir (Burgundy) under $5 for 750ml, maybe a little more if you live in expensive area like SF or NYC, and decide which you like best and use it. When back in Provence France, I use Shiraz/Syrah type wine because it is the local best choice (Rhone Valley) in equivalent southern "Beef Daube Provençale".
Feel free to use sweet red if you want sweet taste or simply add cane sugar when pan frying your mirepoix (onions/carrots). Avoid Cabernet Sauvignon, too much tanin with bitterness risks, and not strong enough.

For the meat:
The official FR beef cut is usually boneless stew meat "paleron/macreuse" (low/slow braise), but also "côtes découvertes", "gîte à la noix" (shorter stirfry/med-rare)". This does not translate to well known packaged US "stew meat", rather Beef Chuck for braising.
http://www.foodsubs.com/MeatBeefChuck.
The one I use is labeled "Beef Shoulder Roast" at my store. For 8 people, 3 to 4 pounds meat, equivalent pounds-to-pints liquid with minimum half of wine, then "fond brun de veau non lié" (veal stock no starch/thickener). I use only wine, no beef stock, and volume to cover like in stew, about 3/4 of a 1.5L magnum. If given the opportunity use venisson/deer, wild boar or simply pork shoulder/butt.

It is nearly impossible to find real "fond brun de veau" in the US but if you can find beef bones equivalent to knuckles, nothing prevents you to add some in the liquid. The best would be beef feet, but beef shanks are easy to find and the marrow tastes so good. However, I remove the meat from the shank and use it for another more suitable dish, in smaller strips (such as in braised-not-stirfry strogonoff), as opposed to large oversized cubes of beef for the bourguignon. The cooking needs homogeneous size and similar meat muscle. In France, they might even use beef cheek ("Joue de boeuf en daube"), you find it in South American stores in the US.


"Pot roast" with marrow - advice?

My father is older, and he longs for recipes made by my mother, who is now passed away. A variation on the pot roast recipe. Since my father's memory is not so good, I am hoping someone here can direct me to a recipe or give me pointers to help adapt a standard recipe. My mother was a basic cook. I'm a little more adventurous, but not very fancy.

What my Dad remembers is a roast with the bone still included, as he realized the wonderful flavor that developed in the sauce/potatoes reflected the marrow. No place in my area can provide a roast with the bone intact. But I did recently see at Whole Foods that beef shanks can come with a nice large bone with a lot of marrow. I thought I could throw that cut in with a more traditional meat cut used for a pot roast, or just use ?2-3 beef shanks with generous meet surrounding the bone as the "roast"? Thoughts? Or is that too much marrow relative to meat? And when cooking with marrow, when during the cooking process do I release it from the bone so it can integrate with the other components?

Next, my Mom's "pot roast" was fairly improvised, and was not cooked on the stove top and/or finished in the oven, but was cooked in an electric frying pan for initial searing and then was covered for slow cooking. Thoughts? My Dad is fixated that I need to use this frying pan, but I suspect that isn't a critical variable.

And finally, my father recalls using TONS of sweet red wine, that was reduced down. Like a more than a traditional bottle. and this contributed to an unusual blackening of the meat surface, essentially coated with a relatively sticky, sweet/savory substance that he loved, particularly in combination with the marrow and the potatoes.

Any pointers on getting/using marrow in my roast? And which cuts?

Electric frying pan - yeah or nay?

Any recipe recommendations that include a crazy high amount of wine added?

I have to admit, that I was not a fan of this recipe as a child. A little too fatty for me, so I will try to remove more of the fat that separates out. But boy, the potatoes were truly delicious with that marrow, if that is the secret.

There is never a crazy high amount of wine added, unless the wine is very specific and strong tasting as opposed to a generic pinot noir/merlot or pinot grigio/sauvignon blanc. Even sweeter wines but generic wines such as moscato/sweet red would be ok. I do Boeuf Bourguignon for 6 with a whole 750ml bottle, only to be adjusted with little beef stock or even more wine if not covering the meat. Need a short/3mn boil first to not make it bitter after simmering hours.

I may also use beef shanks in my Bourguignon, but with the meat removed from the bone. The meat can be separated from the connective tissue and cut to small bite sizes to be used for a sear-then-braise dish at another time.

Clicking the will recommend this comment to others.

Appreciate the input on wine. Just curious. what wine do you use for your Boeuf Bourguignon? And what meat cut?

And if I understand you correctly. you just suggest using the bone out of the shanks, and avoiding the meat for this dish (or for pot roast)? I appreciate this. During my visit to Whole Food yesterday, the butcher also favored avoiding the shank meat, but did like the idea of adding it for the marrow.

I have never made Beouf Bourguignon before either, but looking at it, I suspect my Dad's imagined Pot Roast is kind of Pot Roast with a BB influence.

The Boeuf Bourguignon is called that way because of the local resources which are "la vache charolaise" (Charolais cattle), and the pinot noir type of wine from burgundy. However, other beef types and similar red wines are also suitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charola.
You'd need more info than below for making a bourguignon, so just think good ol' US beef pot roast with accent on wine and not stock, no other veggies inside than onion carrots mirepoix, thick bacon cut in lardon strips, and meat cut into super big cube, and you're in.

For the wine:
The brand does not matter, different places I've lived in, different stores and different brands. As of today, my choice would be the 1.5L Gallo family vineyards hearty burgundy as it is good and available cheap at my local store averaging less than $4/750ml, $6.99 a magnum bottle these days. The Gallo Pinot noir is also good but rare and more expensive when found, such as $6 for 750ml. However, I drink red wine quite often and my favorite to drink is Merlot, which the Gallo is regularly between $3-4 for 750ml. There are other red pinot noir and merlot, very good and cheap at Trader's Joe or Fiesta or other stores that are not the real big guns like walmart/kroger/safeway etc . so look for these. No "Ste. Genevieve Texas" and no "Oak Leaf" for sure, you just have to try a few before you know which to avoid.
My advice is to test taste any Merlot (Bordeaux) or Pinot noir (Burgundy) under $5 for 750ml, maybe a little more if you live in expensive area like SF or NYC, and decide which you like best and use it. When back in Provence France, I use Shiraz/Syrah type wine because it is the local best choice (Rhone Valley) in equivalent southern "Beef Daube Provençale".
Feel free to use sweet red if you want sweet taste or simply add cane sugar when pan frying your mirepoix (onions/carrots). Avoid Cabernet Sauvignon, too much tanin with bitterness risks, and not strong enough.

For the meat:
The official FR beef cut is usually boneless stew meat "paleron/macreuse" (low/slow braise), but also "côtes découvertes", "gîte à la noix" (shorter stirfry/med-rare)". This does not translate to well known packaged US "stew meat", rather Beef Chuck for braising.
http://www.foodsubs.com/MeatBeefChuck.
The one I use is labeled "Beef Shoulder Roast" at my store. For 8 people, 3 to 4 pounds meat, equivalent pounds-to-pints liquid with minimum half of wine, then "fond brun de veau non lié" (veal stock no starch/thickener). I use only wine, no beef stock, and volume to cover like in stew, about 3/4 of a 1.5L magnum. If given the opportunity use venisson/deer, wild boar or simply pork shoulder/butt.

It is nearly impossible to find real "fond brun de veau" in the US but if you can find beef bones equivalent to knuckles, nothing prevents you to add some in the liquid. The best would be beef feet, but beef shanks are easy to find and the marrow tastes so good. However, I remove the meat from the shank and use it for another more suitable dish, in smaller strips (such as in braised-not-stirfry strogonoff), as opposed to large oversized cubes of beef for the bourguignon. The cooking needs homogeneous size and similar meat muscle. In France, they might even use beef cheek ("Joue de boeuf en daube"), you find it in South American stores in the US.


"Pot roast" with marrow - advice?

My father is older, and he longs for recipes made by my mother, who is now passed away. A variation on the pot roast recipe. Since my father's memory is not so good, I am hoping someone here can direct me to a recipe or give me pointers to help adapt a standard recipe. My mother was a basic cook. I'm a little more adventurous, but not very fancy.

What my Dad remembers is a roast with the bone still included, as he realized the wonderful flavor that developed in the sauce/potatoes reflected the marrow. No place in my area can provide a roast with the bone intact. But I did recently see at Whole Foods that beef shanks can come with a nice large bone with a lot of marrow. I thought I could throw that cut in with a more traditional meat cut used for a pot roast, or just use ?2-3 beef shanks with generous meet surrounding the bone as the "roast"? Thoughts? Or is that too much marrow relative to meat? And when cooking with marrow, when during the cooking process do I release it from the bone so it can integrate with the other components?

Next, my Mom's "pot roast" was fairly improvised, and was not cooked on the stove top and/or finished in the oven, but was cooked in an electric frying pan for initial searing and then was covered for slow cooking. Thoughts? My Dad is fixated that I need to use this frying pan, but I suspect that isn't a critical variable.

And finally, my father recalls using TONS of sweet red wine, that was reduced down. Like a more than a traditional bottle. and this contributed to an unusual blackening of the meat surface, essentially coated with a relatively sticky, sweet/savory substance that he loved, particularly in combination with the marrow and the potatoes.

Any pointers on getting/using marrow in my roast? And which cuts?

Electric frying pan - yeah or nay?

Any recipe recommendations that include a crazy high amount of wine added?

I have to admit, that I was not a fan of this recipe as a child. A little too fatty for me, so I will try to remove more of the fat that separates out. But boy, the potatoes were truly delicious with that marrow, if that is the secret.

There is never a crazy high amount of wine added, unless the wine is very specific and strong tasting as opposed to a generic pinot noir/merlot or pinot grigio/sauvignon blanc. Even sweeter wines but generic wines such as moscato/sweet red would be ok. I do Boeuf Bourguignon for 6 with a whole 750ml bottle, only to be adjusted with little beef stock or even more wine if not covering the meat. Need a short/3mn boil first to not make it bitter after simmering hours.

I may also use beef shanks in my Bourguignon, but with the meat removed from the bone. The meat can be separated from the connective tissue and cut to small bite sizes to be used for a sear-then-braise dish at another time.

Clicking the will recommend this comment to others.

Appreciate the input on wine. Just curious. what wine do you use for your Boeuf Bourguignon? And what meat cut?

And if I understand you correctly. you just suggest using the bone out of the shanks, and avoiding the meat for this dish (or for pot roast)? I appreciate this. During my visit to Whole Food yesterday, the butcher also favored avoiding the shank meat, but did like the idea of adding it for the marrow.

I have never made Beouf Bourguignon before either, but looking at it, I suspect my Dad's imagined Pot Roast is kind of Pot Roast with a BB influence.

The Boeuf Bourguignon is called that way because of the local resources which are "la vache charolaise" (Charolais cattle), and the pinot noir type of wine from burgundy. However, other beef types and similar red wines are also suitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charola.
You'd need more info than below for making a bourguignon, so just think good ol' US beef pot roast with accent on wine and not stock, no other veggies inside than onion carrots mirepoix, thick bacon cut in lardon strips, and meat cut into super big cube, and you're in.

For the wine:
The brand does not matter, different places I've lived in, different stores and different brands. As of today, my choice would be the 1.5L Gallo family vineyards hearty burgundy as it is good and available cheap at my local store averaging less than $4/750ml, $6.99 a magnum bottle these days. The Gallo Pinot noir is also good but rare and more expensive when found, such as $6 for 750ml. However, I drink red wine quite often and my favorite to drink is Merlot, which the Gallo is regularly between $3-4 for 750ml. There are other red pinot noir and merlot, very good and cheap at Trader's Joe or Fiesta or other stores that are not the real big guns like walmart/kroger/safeway etc . so look for these. No "Ste. Genevieve Texas" and no "Oak Leaf" for sure, you just have to try a few before you know which to avoid.
My advice is to test taste any Merlot (Bordeaux) or Pinot noir (Burgundy) under $5 for 750ml, maybe a little more if you live in expensive area like SF or NYC, and decide which you like best and use it. When back in Provence France, I use Shiraz/Syrah type wine because it is the local best choice (Rhone Valley) in equivalent southern "Beef Daube Provençale".
Feel free to use sweet red if you want sweet taste or simply add cane sugar when pan frying your mirepoix (onions/carrots). Avoid Cabernet Sauvignon, too much tanin with bitterness risks, and not strong enough.

For the meat:
The official FR beef cut is usually boneless stew meat "paleron/macreuse" (low/slow braise), but also "côtes découvertes", "gîte à la noix" (shorter stirfry/med-rare)". This does not translate to well known packaged US "stew meat", rather Beef Chuck for braising.
http://www.foodsubs.com/MeatBeefChuck.
The one I use is labeled "Beef Shoulder Roast" at my store. For 8 people, 3 to 4 pounds meat, equivalent pounds-to-pints liquid with minimum half of wine, then "fond brun de veau non lié" (veal stock no starch/thickener). I use only wine, no beef stock, and volume to cover like in stew, about 3/4 of a 1.5L magnum. If given the opportunity use venisson/deer, wild boar or simply pork shoulder/butt.

It is nearly impossible to find real "fond brun de veau" in the US but if you can find beef bones equivalent to knuckles, nothing prevents you to add some in the liquid. The best would be beef feet, but beef shanks are easy to find and the marrow tastes so good. However, I remove the meat from the shank and use it for another more suitable dish, in smaller strips (such as in braised-not-stirfry strogonoff), as opposed to large oversized cubes of beef for the bourguignon. The cooking needs homogeneous size and similar meat muscle. In France, they might even use beef cheek ("Joue de boeuf en daube"), you find it in South American stores in the US.


"Pot roast" with marrow - advice?

My father is older, and he longs for recipes made by my mother, who is now passed away. A variation on the pot roast recipe. Since my father's memory is not so good, I am hoping someone here can direct me to a recipe or give me pointers to help adapt a standard recipe. My mother was a basic cook. I'm a little more adventurous, but not very fancy.

What my Dad remembers is a roast with the bone still included, as he realized the wonderful flavor that developed in the sauce/potatoes reflected the marrow. No place in my area can provide a roast with the bone intact. But I did recently see at Whole Foods that beef shanks can come with a nice large bone with a lot of marrow. I thought I could throw that cut in with a more traditional meat cut used for a pot roast, or just use ?2-3 beef shanks with generous meet surrounding the bone as the "roast"? Thoughts? Or is that too much marrow relative to meat? And when cooking with marrow, when during the cooking process do I release it from the bone so it can integrate with the other components?

Next, my Mom's "pot roast" was fairly improvised, and was not cooked on the stove top and/or finished in the oven, but was cooked in an electric frying pan for initial searing and then was covered for slow cooking. Thoughts? My Dad is fixated that I need to use this frying pan, but I suspect that isn't a critical variable.

And finally, my father recalls using TONS of sweet red wine, that was reduced down. Like a more than a traditional bottle. and this contributed to an unusual blackening of the meat surface, essentially coated with a relatively sticky, sweet/savory substance that he loved, particularly in combination with the marrow and the potatoes.

Any pointers on getting/using marrow in my roast? And which cuts?

Electric frying pan - yeah or nay?

Any recipe recommendations that include a crazy high amount of wine added?

I have to admit, that I was not a fan of this recipe as a child. A little too fatty for me, so I will try to remove more of the fat that separates out. But boy, the potatoes were truly delicious with that marrow, if that is the secret.

There is never a crazy high amount of wine added, unless the wine is very specific and strong tasting as opposed to a generic pinot noir/merlot or pinot grigio/sauvignon blanc. Even sweeter wines but generic wines such as moscato/sweet red would be ok. I do Boeuf Bourguignon for 6 with a whole 750ml bottle, only to be adjusted with little beef stock or even more wine if not covering the meat. Need a short/3mn boil first to not make it bitter after simmering hours.

I may also use beef shanks in my Bourguignon, but with the meat removed from the bone. The meat can be separated from the connective tissue and cut to small bite sizes to be used for a sear-then-braise dish at another time.

Clicking the will recommend this comment to others.

Appreciate the input on wine. Just curious. what wine do you use for your Boeuf Bourguignon? And what meat cut?

And if I understand you correctly. you just suggest using the bone out of the shanks, and avoiding the meat for this dish (or for pot roast)? I appreciate this. During my visit to Whole Food yesterday, the butcher also favored avoiding the shank meat, but did like the idea of adding it for the marrow.

I have never made Beouf Bourguignon before either, but looking at it, I suspect my Dad's imagined Pot Roast is kind of Pot Roast with a BB influence.

The Boeuf Bourguignon is called that way because of the local resources which are "la vache charolaise" (Charolais cattle), and the pinot noir type of wine from burgundy. However, other beef types and similar red wines are also suitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charola.
You'd need more info than below for making a bourguignon, so just think good ol' US beef pot roast with accent on wine and not stock, no other veggies inside than onion carrots mirepoix, thick bacon cut in lardon strips, and meat cut into super big cube, and you're in.

For the wine:
The brand does not matter, different places I've lived in, different stores and different brands. As of today, my choice would be the 1.5L Gallo family vineyards hearty burgundy as it is good and available cheap at my local store averaging less than $4/750ml, $6.99 a magnum bottle these days. The Gallo Pinot noir is also good but rare and more expensive when found, such as $6 for 750ml. However, I drink red wine quite often and my favorite to drink is Merlot, which the Gallo is regularly between $3-4 for 750ml. There are other red pinot noir and merlot, very good and cheap at Trader's Joe or Fiesta or other stores that are not the real big guns like walmart/kroger/safeway etc . so look for these. No "Ste. Genevieve Texas" and no "Oak Leaf" for sure, you just have to try a few before you know which to avoid.
My advice is to test taste any Merlot (Bordeaux) or Pinot noir (Burgundy) under $5 for 750ml, maybe a little more if you live in expensive area like SF or NYC, and decide which you like best and use it. When back in Provence France, I use Shiraz/Syrah type wine because it is the local best choice (Rhone Valley) in equivalent southern "Beef Daube Provençale".
Feel free to use sweet red if you want sweet taste or simply add cane sugar when pan frying your mirepoix (onions/carrots). Avoid Cabernet Sauvignon, too much tanin with bitterness risks, and not strong enough.

For the meat:
The official FR beef cut is usually boneless stew meat "paleron/macreuse" (low/slow braise), but also "côtes découvertes", "gîte à la noix" (shorter stirfry/med-rare)". This does not translate to well known packaged US "stew meat", rather Beef Chuck for braising.
http://www.foodsubs.com/MeatBeefChuck.
The one I use is labeled "Beef Shoulder Roast" at my store. For 8 people, 3 to 4 pounds meat, equivalent pounds-to-pints liquid with minimum half of wine, then "fond brun de veau non lié" (veal stock no starch/thickener). I use only wine, no beef stock, and volume to cover like in stew, about 3/4 of a 1.5L magnum. If given the opportunity use venisson/deer, wild boar or simply pork shoulder/butt.

It is nearly impossible to find real "fond brun de veau" in the US but if you can find beef bones equivalent to knuckles, nothing prevents you to add some in the liquid. The best would be beef feet, but beef shanks are easy to find and the marrow tastes so good. However, I remove the meat from the shank and use it for another more suitable dish, in smaller strips (such as in braised-not-stirfry strogonoff), as opposed to large oversized cubes of beef for the bourguignon. The cooking needs homogeneous size and similar meat muscle. In France, they might even use beef cheek ("Joue de boeuf en daube"), you find it in South American stores in the US.


"Pot roast" with marrow - advice?

My father is older, and he longs for recipes made by my mother, who is now passed away. A variation on the pot roast recipe. Since my father's memory is not so good, I am hoping someone here can direct me to a recipe or give me pointers to help adapt a standard recipe. My mother was a basic cook. I'm a little more adventurous, but not very fancy.

What my Dad remembers is a roast with the bone still included, as he realized the wonderful flavor that developed in the sauce/potatoes reflected the marrow. No place in my area can provide a roast with the bone intact. But I did recently see at Whole Foods that beef shanks can come with a nice large bone with a lot of marrow. I thought I could throw that cut in with a more traditional meat cut used for a pot roast, or just use ?2-3 beef shanks with generous meet surrounding the bone as the "roast"? Thoughts? Or is that too much marrow relative to meat? And when cooking with marrow, when during the cooking process do I release it from the bone so it can integrate with the other components?

Next, my Mom's "pot roast" was fairly improvised, and was not cooked on the stove top and/or finished in the oven, but was cooked in an electric frying pan for initial searing and then was covered for slow cooking. Thoughts? My Dad is fixated that I need to use this frying pan, but I suspect that isn't a critical variable.

And finally, my father recalls using TONS of sweet red wine, that was reduced down. Like a more than a traditional bottle. and this contributed to an unusual blackening of the meat surface, essentially coated with a relatively sticky, sweet/savory substance that he loved, particularly in combination with the marrow and the potatoes.

Any pointers on getting/using marrow in my roast? And which cuts?

Electric frying pan - yeah or nay?

Any recipe recommendations that include a crazy high amount of wine added?

I have to admit, that I was not a fan of this recipe as a child. A little too fatty for me, so I will try to remove more of the fat that separates out. But boy, the potatoes were truly delicious with that marrow, if that is the secret.

There is never a crazy high amount of wine added, unless the wine is very specific and strong tasting as opposed to a generic pinot noir/merlot or pinot grigio/sauvignon blanc. Even sweeter wines but generic wines such as moscato/sweet red would be ok. I do Boeuf Bourguignon for 6 with a whole 750ml bottle, only to be adjusted with little beef stock or even more wine if not covering the meat. Need a short/3mn boil first to not make it bitter after simmering hours.

I may also use beef shanks in my Bourguignon, but with the meat removed from the bone. The meat can be separated from the connective tissue and cut to small bite sizes to be used for a sear-then-braise dish at another time.

Clicking the will recommend this comment to others.

Appreciate the input on wine. Just curious. what wine do you use for your Boeuf Bourguignon? And what meat cut?

And if I understand you correctly. you just suggest using the bone out of the shanks, and avoiding the meat for this dish (or for pot roast)? I appreciate this. During my visit to Whole Food yesterday, the butcher also favored avoiding the shank meat, but did like the idea of adding it for the marrow.

I have never made Beouf Bourguignon before either, but looking at it, I suspect my Dad's imagined Pot Roast is kind of Pot Roast with a BB influence.

The Boeuf Bourguignon is called that way because of the local resources which are "la vache charolaise" (Charolais cattle), and the pinot noir type of wine from burgundy. However, other beef types and similar red wines are also suitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charola.
You'd need more info than below for making a bourguignon, so just think good ol' US beef pot roast with accent on wine and not stock, no other veggies inside than onion carrots mirepoix, thick bacon cut in lardon strips, and meat cut into super big cube, and you're in.

For the wine:
The brand does not matter, different places I've lived in, different stores and different brands. As of today, my choice would be the 1.5L Gallo family vineyards hearty burgundy as it is good and available cheap at my local store averaging less than $4/750ml, $6.99 a magnum bottle these days. The Gallo Pinot noir is also good but rare and more expensive when found, such as $6 for 750ml. However, I drink red wine quite often and my favorite to drink is Merlot, which the Gallo is regularly between $3-4 for 750ml. There are other red pinot noir and merlot, very good and cheap at Trader's Joe or Fiesta or other stores that are not the real big guns like walmart/kroger/safeway etc . so look for these. No "Ste. Genevieve Texas" and no "Oak Leaf" for sure, you just have to try a few before you know which to avoid.
My advice is to test taste any Merlot (Bordeaux) or Pinot noir (Burgundy) under $5 for 750ml, maybe a little more if you live in expensive area like SF or NYC, and decide which you like best and use it. When back in Provence France, I use Shiraz/Syrah type wine because it is the local best choice (Rhone Valley) in equivalent southern "Beef Daube Provençale".
Feel free to use sweet red if you want sweet taste or simply add cane sugar when pan frying your mirepoix (onions/carrots). Avoid Cabernet Sauvignon, too much tanin with bitterness risks, and not strong enough.

For the meat:
The official FR beef cut is usually boneless stew meat "paleron/macreuse" (low/slow braise), but also "côtes découvertes", "gîte à la noix" (shorter stirfry/med-rare)". This does not translate to well known packaged US "stew meat", rather Beef Chuck for braising.
http://www.foodsubs.com/MeatBeefChuck.
The one I use is labeled "Beef Shoulder Roast" at my store. For 8 people, 3 to 4 pounds meat, equivalent pounds-to-pints liquid with minimum half of wine, then "fond brun de veau non lié" (veal stock no starch/thickener). I use only wine, no beef stock, and volume to cover like in stew, about 3/4 of a 1.5L magnum. If given the opportunity use venisson/deer, wild boar or simply pork shoulder/butt.

It is nearly impossible to find real "fond brun de veau" in the US but if you can find beef bones equivalent to knuckles, nothing prevents you to add some in the liquid. The best would be beef feet, but beef shanks are easy to find and the marrow tastes so good. However, I remove the meat from the shank and use it for another more suitable dish, in smaller strips (such as in braised-not-stirfry strogonoff), as opposed to large oversized cubes of beef for the bourguignon. The cooking needs homogeneous size and similar meat muscle. In France, they might even use beef cheek ("Joue de boeuf en daube"), you find it in South American stores in the US.


"Pot roast" with marrow - advice?

My father is older, and he longs for recipes made by my mother, who is now passed away. A variation on the pot roast recipe. Since my father's memory is not so good, I am hoping someone here can direct me to a recipe or give me pointers to help adapt a standard recipe. My mother was a basic cook. I'm a little more adventurous, but not very fancy.

What my Dad remembers is a roast with the bone still included, as he realized the wonderful flavor that developed in the sauce/potatoes reflected the marrow. No place in my area can provide a roast with the bone intact. But I did recently see at Whole Foods that beef shanks can come with a nice large bone with a lot of marrow. I thought I could throw that cut in with a more traditional meat cut used for a pot roast, or just use ?2-3 beef shanks with generous meet surrounding the bone as the "roast"? Thoughts? Or is that too much marrow relative to meat? And when cooking with marrow, when during the cooking process do I release it from the bone so it can integrate with the other components?

Next, my Mom's "pot roast" was fairly improvised, and was not cooked on the stove top and/or finished in the oven, but was cooked in an electric frying pan for initial searing and then was covered for slow cooking. Thoughts? My Dad is fixated that I need to use this frying pan, but I suspect that isn't a critical variable.

And finally, my father recalls using TONS of sweet red wine, that was reduced down. Like a more than a traditional bottle. and this contributed to an unusual blackening of the meat surface, essentially coated with a relatively sticky, sweet/savory substance that he loved, particularly in combination with the marrow and the potatoes.

Any pointers on getting/using marrow in my roast? And which cuts?

Electric frying pan - yeah or nay?

Any recipe recommendations that include a crazy high amount of wine added?

I have to admit, that I was not a fan of this recipe as a child. A little too fatty for me, so I will try to remove more of the fat that separates out. But boy, the potatoes were truly delicious with that marrow, if that is the secret.

There is never a crazy high amount of wine added, unless the wine is very specific and strong tasting as opposed to a generic pinot noir/merlot or pinot grigio/sauvignon blanc. Even sweeter wines but generic wines such as moscato/sweet red would be ok. I do Boeuf Bourguignon for 6 with a whole 750ml bottle, only to be adjusted with little beef stock or even more wine if not covering the meat. Need a short/3mn boil first to not make it bitter after simmering hours.

I may also use beef shanks in my Bourguignon, but with the meat removed from the bone. The meat can be separated from the connective tissue and cut to small bite sizes to be used for a sear-then-braise dish at another time.

Clicking the will recommend this comment to others.

Appreciate the input on wine. Just curious. what wine do you use for your Boeuf Bourguignon? And what meat cut?

And if I understand you correctly. you just suggest using the bone out of the shanks, and avoiding the meat for this dish (or for pot roast)? I appreciate this. During my visit to Whole Food yesterday, the butcher also favored avoiding the shank meat, but did like the idea of adding it for the marrow.

I have never made Beouf Bourguignon before either, but looking at it, I suspect my Dad's imagined Pot Roast is kind of Pot Roast with a BB influence.

The Boeuf Bourguignon is called that way because of the local resources which are "la vache charolaise" (Charolais cattle), and the pinot noir type of wine from burgundy. However, other beef types and similar red wines are also suitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charola.
You'd need more info than below for making a bourguignon, so just think good ol' US beef pot roast with accent on wine and not stock, no other veggies inside than onion carrots mirepoix, thick bacon cut in lardon strips, and meat cut into super big cube, and you're in.

For the wine:
The brand does not matter, different places I've lived in, different stores and different brands. As of today, my choice would be the 1.5L Gallo family vineyards hearty burgundy as it is good and available cheap at my local store averaging less than $4/750ml, $6.99 a magnum bottle these days. The Gallo Pinot noir is also good but rare and more expensive when found, such as $6 for 750ml. However, I drink red wine quite often and my favorite to drink is Merlot, which the Gallo is regularly between $3-4 for 750ml. There are other red pinot noir and merlot, very good and cheap at Trader's Joe or Fiesta or other stores that are not the real big guns like walmart/kroger/safeway etc . so look for these. No "Ste. Genevieve Texas" and no "Oak Leaf" for sure, you just have to try a few before you know which to avoid.
My advice is to test taste any Merlot (Bordeaux) or Pinot noir (Burgundy) under $5 for 750ml, maybe a little more if you live in expensive area like SF or NYC, and decide which you like best and use it. When back in Provence France, I use Shiraz/Syrah type wine because it is the local best choice (Rhone Valley) in equivalent southern "Beef Daube Provençale".
Feel free to use sweet red if you want sweet taste or simply add cane sugar when pan frying your mirepoix (onions/carrots). Avoid Cabernet Sauvignon, too much tanin with bitterness risks, and not strong enough.

For the meat:
The official FR beef cut is usually boneless stew meat "paleron/macreuse" (low/slow braise), but also "côtes découvertes", "gîte à la noix" (shorter stirfry/med-rare)". This does not translate to well known packaged US "stew meat", rather Beef Chuck for braising.
http://www.foodsubs.com/MeatBeefChuck.
The one I use is labeled "Beef Shoulder Roast" at my store. For 8 people, 3 to 4 pounds meat, equivalent pounds-to-pints liquid with minimum half of wine, then "fond brun de veau non lié" (veal stock no starch/thickener). I use only wine, no beef stock, and volume to cover like in stew, about 3/4 of a 1.5L magnum. If given the opportunity use venisson/deer, wild boar or simply pork shoulder/butt.

It is nearly impossible to find real "fond brun de veau" in the US but if you can find beef bones equivalent to knuckles, nothing prevents you to add some in the liquid. The best would be beef feet, but beef shanks are easy to find and the marrow tastes so good. However, I remove the meat from the shank and use it for another more suitable dish, in smaller strips (such as in braised-not-stirfry strogonoff), as opposed to large oversized cubes of beef for the bourguignon. The cooking needs homogeneous size and similar meat muscle. In France, they might even use beef cheek ("Joue de boeuf en daube"), you find it in South American stores in the US.


"Pot roast" with marrow - advice?

My father is older, and he longs for recipes made by my mother, who is now passed away. A variation on the pot roast recipe. Since my father's memory is not so good, I am hoping someone here can direct me to a recipe or give me pointers to help adapt a standard recipe. My mother was a basic cook. I'm a little more adventurous, but not very fancy.

What my Dad remembers is a roast with the bone still included, as he realized the wonderful flavor that developed in the sauce/potatoes reflected the marrow. No place in my area can provide a roast with the bone intact. But I did recently see at Whole Foods that beef shanks can come with a nice large bone with a lot of marrow. I thought I could throw that cut in with a more traditional meat cut used for a pot roast, or just use ?2-3 beef shanks with generous meet surrounding the bone as the "roast"? Thoughts? Or is that too much marrow relative to meat? And when cooking with marrow, when during the cooking process do I release it from the bone so it can integrate with the other components?

Next, my Mom's "pot roast" was fairly improvised, and was not cooked on the stove top and/or finished in the oven, but was cooked in an electric frying pan for initial searing and then was covered for slow cooking. Thoughts? My Dad is fixated that I need to use this frying pan, but I suspect that isn't a critical variable.

And finally, my father recalls using TONS of sweet red wine, that was reduced down. Like a more than a traditional bottle. and this contributed to an unusual blackening of the meat surface, essentially coated with a relatively sticky, sweet/savory substance that he loved, particularly in combination with the marrow and the potatoes.

Any pointers on getting/using marrow in my roast? And which cuts?

Electric frying pan - yeah or nay?

Any recipe recommendations that include a crazy high amount of wine added?

I have to admit, that I was not a fan of this recipe as a child. A little too fatty for me, so I will try to remove more of the fat that separates out. But boy, the potatoes were truly delicious with that marrow, if that is the secret.

There is never a crazy high amount of wine added, unless the wine is very specific and strong tasting as opposed to a generic pinot noir/merlot or pinot grigio/sauvignon blanc. Even sweeter wines but generic wines such as moscato/sweet red would be ok. I do Boeuf Bourguignon for 6 with a whole 750ml bottle, only to be adjusted with little beef stock or even more wine if not covering the meat. Need a short/3mn boil first to not make it bitter after simmering hours.

I may also use beef shanks in my Bourguignon, but with the meat removed from the bone. The meat can be separated from the connective tissue and cut to small bite sizes to be used for a sear-then-braise dish at another time.

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Appreciate the input on wine. Just curious. what wine do you use for your Boeuf Bourguignon? And what meat cut?

And if I understand you correctly. you just suggest using the bone out of the shanks, and avoiding the meat for this dish (or for pot roast)? I appreciate this. During my visit to Whole Food yesterday, the butcher also favored avoiding the shank meat, but did like the idea of adding it for the marrow.

I have never made Beouf Bourguignon before either, but looking at it, I suspect my Dad's imagined Pot Roast is kind of Pot Roast with a BB influence.

The Boeuf Bourguignon is called that way because of the local resources which are "la vache charolaise" (Charolais cattle), and the pinot noir type of wine from burgundy. However, other beef types and similar red wines are also suitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charola.
You'd need more info than below for making a bourguignon, so just think good ol' US beef pot roast with accent on wine and not stock, no other veggies inside than onion carrots mirepoix, thick bacon cut in lardon strips, and meat cut into super big cube, and you're in.

For the wine:
The brand does not matter, different places I've lived in, different stores and different brands. As of today, my choice would be the 1.5L Gallo family vineyards hearty burgundy as it is good and available cheap at my local store averaging less than $4/750ml, $6.99 a magnum bottle these days. The Gallo Pinot noir is also good but rare and more expensive when found, such as $6 for 750ml. However, I drink red wine quite often and my favorite to drink is Merlot, which the Gallo is regularly between $3-4 for 750ml. There are other red pinot noir and merlot, very good and cheap at Trader's Joe or Fiesta or other stores that are not the real big guns like walmart/kroger/safeway etc . so look for these. No "Ste. Genevieve Texas" and no "Oak Leaf" for sure, you just have to try a few before you know which to avoid.
My advice is to test taste any Merlot (Bordeaux) or Pinot noir (Burgundy) under $5 for 750ml, maybe a little more if you live in expensive area like SF or NYC, and decide which you like best and use it. When back in Provence France, I use Shiraz/Syrah type wine because it is the local best choice (Rhone Valley) in equivalent southern "Beef Daube Provençale".
Feel free to use sweet red if you want sweet taste or simply add cane sugar when pan frying your mirepoix (onions/carrots). Avoid Cabernet Sauvignon, too much tanin with bitterness risks, and not strong enough.

For the meat:
The official FR beef cut is usually boneless stew meat "paleron/macreuse" (low/slow braise), but also "côtes découvertes", "gîte à la noix" (shorter stirfry/med-rare)". This does not translate to well known packaged US "stew meat", rather Beef Chuck for braising.
http://www.foodsubs.com/MeatBeefChuck.
The one I use is labeled "Beef Shoulder Roast" at my store. For 8 people, 3 to 4 pounds meat, equivalent pounds-to-pints liquid with minimum half of wine, then "fond brun de veau non lié" (veal stock no starch/thickener). I use only wine, no beef stock, and volume to cover like in stew, about 3/4 of a 1.5L magnum. If given the opportunity use venisson/deer, wild boar or simply pork shoulder/butt.

It is nearly impossible to find real "fond brun de veau" in the US but if you can find beef bones equivalent to knuckles, nothing prevents you to add some in the liquid. The best would be beef feet, but beef shanks are easy to find and the marrow tastes so good. However, I remove the meat from the shank and use it for another more suitable dish, in smaller strips (such as in braised-not-stirfry strogonoff), as opposed to large oversized cubes of beef for the bourguignon. The cooking needs homogeneous size and similar meat muscle. In France, they might even use beef cheek ("Joue de boeuf en daube"), you find it in South American stores in the US.


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